War and Peace

Okay, I'm going to get all political. Fun, fun. Truthfully, this post kinda scares me. It's not that I'm ashamed of my beliefs, but with issues termed "political" there's usually the chance of offending someone. I'm not looking forward to any backlash. But this issue was posed to me recently by an acquaintance, and though I'd never given it a huge amount of thought, I promised I would study and blog about my conclusions.

The statement I came across was not a new one, but definitely one I did not expect to see from a Christian. The idea was posed that it is hypocritical to claim to be both pro-life and pro-war. That if you value unborn human life as sacred, you should also be as strongly protective of the lives of those affected by a war. Not only that, but that as believers, we should always be against war.

Well, before delving into a more spiritual side of the issue, right away, I see errors in accuracy in this statement. The term "pro-life" is a political statement directly related to the issue of abortion. It is not pro-life vs. pro-war, but rather pro-life vs. pro-choice. It has only to do with the killing of the unborn as a matter of a person's right, and perhaps to a lessor extent (at least at this point) euthanasia. To relate the term pro-life to war is an inaccurate correlation that this very grammatically ruled brain just can't abide.

Abortion and euthanasia deal with ending a human life for the sake of one's personal comfort. The victim cannot speak up for his or her right to life. Because the life is unwanted or not perfect, it is discarded. Abortion is a holocaust of millions upon millions of our country's children. We cast aside babies as casually as we would yesterday's newspaper. The same with euthanasia of handicapped or the elderly.

War, on the other hand, is conflict between two opposing viewpoints, usually right and wrong, that does indeed end in bloodshed. For the most part, especially in our time, the lives lost are soldiers serving their country. Men and women who made a conscious choice to serve in the military, knowing the risks involved. Yes, occasionally, there is some civilian life lost. But I have to believe that our country does it's best to avoid such casualties. In the case of the Iraq war, for instance, the civilians there face more threat from their own terrorists than from American soldiers.

I do not believe war is desirable. It is not the ideal at all. It was not God's plan for man to war and kill each other. However, man made the choice to sin, and as a result, mankind has been plagued by evil. Our world faces powerful men that seek to terrorize and kill. If we didn't have a way of threatening these terrorists when they choose to do evil, how could we ever end the bloodshed they cause? I believe it is our responsibility to protect human life from evil men, not the other way around. And the fact is, war gets results. Think about it, if our nation had never gone to war, we'd still be under the religious tyranny of Britain, slavery would still be a pungent stain on our culture, and we'd all be speaking German right now. But we are free--free to seek after God, free from having to live under the thumb of someone else, free to be equals, free to live out our lives without persecution. Americans should not be the only humans with these freedoms. If you believe all men are created equal, that goes for the helpless souls being terrorized in another nation. Not just you.

Now to the more Scriptural side. The first verse I thought of when I came across this statement was John 15:12-13. "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends." Because of this, I truly believe that sometimes, death is necessary. This does not make me calloused against the value of a human soul. But how could I, as one who has been bought with the blood of Christ think any differently? Someone had to die for my sin. It should have been me. But through his love that has no limits, Christ died for me. I am to love others with that same precious love. It seems more hypocritical for a Christian to believe that there should never be any unnatural death. What of our Savior? What have you been spared because of his sacrifice? You take his gift of life, but are not willing to give yours for anyone else--for those that are weak and oppressed? What if it was your spouse being threatened? Or your child? Chances are you would give your life to protect theirs. We should be willing to stand up and protect the lives of others who need our help as well. Our soldiers, whether they be Christians or not, put their lives on the line to protect you, even if you think their sacrifice unnecessary or morally wrong. And not just soldiers. Think of our police officers, our firefighters, those involved in rescue after a disaster. If they believed that their own lives were more important than yours, think of the death that would ensue.

But what about peace? Aren't we as believers supposed to be all about peace? Romans 12 comes to mind. "Bless those who persecute you, bless and do not curse them. Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, 'Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord'. To the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing so you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good." Yes, believers are to be ruled by the peace of God. We should not be looking for a fight or thirsty for bloodshed. We should not be given to pursuing carnal retribution. This is because as a believer, our hearts desire should be to share Christ's love with the dying souls he brings to the doorsteps of our lives. People need to see God's love in action. How can we witness if we are abrasive and unforgiving? So I do believe that we should be pursuers of peace, "so far as it depends on you".

This is why we have governments. In the very next verses after Romans 12, there is a section on obeying government authorities. (Ch 13:1-7) Why? Because God sets them up as protection for us. I'd like to specifically quote verses 3-4. "For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer." Clearly, it is revealed here that governments are for the purpose of protecting those who do good from those who do evil. If you choose to be evil, "be afraid", because God does not let sin go unpunished. It is our rulers' responsibility to protect the cause of good. This is why we fight wars, because when evil is rampant, our leaders cannot just stand by and allow it. God has given them the authority to carry out His wrath on the wrongdoer.

Like it or not, in a world filled with sin, there will be war. I for one, would much rather dwell in a nation that is willing to fight against evil, rather than be one of the frightened souls under the terror of a homicidal maniac. I especially think of the mothers with young children, having to live in fear for their families' safety and being oppressed by their own government. These people are crying out for rescue. How can we as the strong nation turn our backs to these hurting people?

"You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:6-8

Comments

Anonymous said…
Kathy:

Below are my comments on your blog. I list your statements first and then list my comments. Please see this not as an argument, but as words from one believer to his sister in Christ.

KATHY: The statement I came across was not a new one, but definitely one I did not expect to see from a Christian. The idea was posed that it is hypocritical to claim to be both pro-life and pro-war. That if you value unborn human life as sacred, you should also be as strongly protective of the lives of those affected by a war. Not only that, but that as believers, we should always be against war.

Well, before delving into a more spiritual side of the issue, right away, I see errors in accuracy in this statement. The term "pro-life" is a political statement directly related to the issue of abortion. It is not pro-life vs. pro-war, but rather pro-life vs. pro-choice. It has only to do with the killing of the unborn as a matter of a person's right, and perhaps to a lesser extent (at least at this point) euthanasia. To relate the term pro-life to war is an inaccurate correlation that this very grammatically ruled brain just can't abide.

RESPONSE: Actually, the term “pro-life” is not a political statement but a moral and theological stance that includes abortion, but goes beyond it as well (see the book Completely Pro Life by Ronald J. Sider). The more accurate expression of terms would be Anti-Abortion (as a segment of Pro-Life) vs. Pro-Abortion. If you take the terms you use above then you’ve allowed the pro-abortion terminology of pro-choice to be accepted when it is actually semantic word play by the pro-abortion camp to sound like they’re in favor of something positive (choice) instead of being in favor of a negative (abortion).

Pro-life, as a term, cannot be intellectually limited to the issues of abortion and euthanasia. To be “pro-life” in a correct grammatical sense is to be pro (or in favor of) life. One of the main objectives of war is to take the life of one that has been identified as an enemy. One cannot thus be in favor of life while at the same time being involved in or supporting those who are causing death to others.

KATHY: Abortion and euthanasia deal with ending a human life for the sake of one's personal comfort. The victim cannot speak up for his or her right to life. Because the life is unwanted or not perfect, it is discarded. Abortion is a holocaust of millions upon millions of our country's children. We cast aside babies as casually as we would yesterday's newspaper. The same with euthanasia of handicapped or the elderly.

War, on the other hand, is conflict between two opposing viewpoints, usually right and wrong, that does indeed end in bloodshed. For the most part, especially in our time, the lives lost are soldiers serving their country. Men and women who made a conscious choice to serve in the military, knowing the risks involved. Yes, occasionally, there is some civilian life lost. But I have to believe that our country does it's best to avoid such casualties. In the case of the Iraq war, for instance, the civilians there face more threat from their own terrorists than from American soldiers.

RESPONSE: I agree that abortion and euthanasia deal with ending a human life for the sake of one’s personal comfort in most situations. War, however, is more than just a conflict between two opposing viewpoints. That description would be more accurate for a debate. War is a situation where two nation-states come to a point of physical conflict and order those under their control to take up arms against those whom they oppose. It is a bit of an error to assume that all involved in fighting in wars have made a conscious choice to serve in the military. In some nations, there is no choice involved and even where there is choice, the nation-state often wield very coercive means to get their citizens to fight on their behalf. Also, the notion of who is right and who is wrong is can be subjective and is sure to vary depending on whom one is speaking to.

It may not have been your intent, but you seem to almost take lightly that “occasionally, there is some civilian life lost.” In many wars there are high numbers of civilian lives lost. In the Iraq war there have been thousands of innocent men, women and children who have suffered horrific deaths. Try telling the surviving father, mother, wife, husband or child that their loved one was just “some civilian life lost.” Also, why is it that you “have to believe that our country does its best to avoid such casualties?” Is this based on any facts at hand or is it just a belief that your country could never do things that are not right and just? This is the same country that lied, cheated and stole land from my Native American ancestors. This is the same country whose soldiers have been convicted of torture in an Iraq prison. This is the same nation that has said that the killing of unborn babies is simply a matter of choice. While I am glad to be a citizen of the USA, I also recognize that we don’t always do the right thing at all times.

Also you note that in the case of Iraq the citizens there face a greater threat from terrorists than from American soldiers. It should be noted that terrorists such as Al Qaida did not have a strong presence in Iraq before this war. It should also be noted that the USA attacked Iraq under false pretences of there being WMD. I do not defend Saddam on any level, but we basically attacked a country without being provoked and who posed no realistic threat to the USA. Again, this does not sound like a country that is doing “its best.”

KATHY: I do not believe war is desirable. It is not the ideal at all. It was not God's plan for man to war and kill each other. However, man made the choice to sin, and as a result, mankind has been plagued by evil. Our world faces powerful men that seek to terrorize and kill. If we didn't have a way of threatening these terrorists when they choose to do evil, how could we ever end the bloodshed they cause? I believe it is our responsibility to protect human life from evil men, not the other way around. And the fact is, war gets results. Think about it, if our nation had never gone to war, we'd still be under the religious tyranny of Britain, slavery would still be a pungent stain on our culture, and we'd all be speaking German right now. But we are free--free to seek after God, free from having to live under the thumb of someone else, free to be equals, free to live out our lives without persecution. Americans should not be the only humans with these freedoms. If you believe all men are created equal, that goes for the helpless souls being terrorized in another nation. Not just you.

RESPONSE: Yes, war is not desirable and is obviously against God’s ideal for humans – one of the results of the fall. As a Believer, I believe that Christ’s death and resurrection was done to reverse the effects of the fall. We who follow Christ cannot justify getting involved in war by saying we have no choice because it’s a result of the fall. In your statement regarding having a way of threatening terrorists, who do you refer to as the “we?” Is it the state? That would be different that if your “we” referred to Believers. Because, as followers of Christ we are told that our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers (satanic, not corporal) and we are also told that we do not wage war as the world does, and that our weapons are different than those of the world. If the state wishes to wage war, then Believers should not be party to it, because we wage a different war with different, spiritual, weapons.

I think it’s interesting that you noted that a justification for war is, “it gets results.” There are a lot of things in this world that get results that cannot be justified with scripture. I could say that bribing corrupt politicians gets results, but that is not to recommend it. The idea of getting results treads on the “ends justify the means” arguments which most moral ethics would reject out of hand. As for those results, it is doubtful that without the Revolutionary War we’d be under the religious tyranny of Britain. The war was not fought mainly for religious freedom but for economic reasons. Our forefathers and mothers were fighting against taxation without representation. Besides, the current residents of the England are not under religious tyranny – and have little to do with religion at all. Also, you may want to note that England ended slavery not by a civil war, but by the efforts of Christians working through the legal system. As far as speaking German goes, well, I know a little German and I doubt that Hitler would have had enough troops and strength to take over the USA.

KATHY: Now to the more Scriptural side. The first verse I thought of when I came across this statement was John 15:12-13. "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends." Because of this, I truly believe that sometimes, death is necessary. This does not make me calloused against the value of a human soul. But how could I, as one who has been bought with the blood of Christ think any differently? Someone had to die for my sin. It should have been me. But through his love that has no limits, Christ died for me. I am to love others with that same precious love. It seems more hypocritical for a Christian to believe that there should never be any unnatural death. What of our Savior? What have you been spared because of his sacrifice? You take his gift of life, but are not willing to give yours for anyone else--for those that are weak and oppressed? What if it was your spouse being threatened? Or your child? Chances are you would give your life to protect theirs. We should be willing to stand up and protect the lives of others who need our help as well. Our soldiers, whether they be Christians or not, put their lives on the line to protect you, even if you think their sacrifice unnecessary or morally wrong. And not just soldiers. Think of our police officers, our firefighters, those involved in rescue after a disaster. If they believed that their own lives were more important than yours, think of the death that would ensue.

RESPONSE: I agree with what you say here about being willing to give my life for others. I humbly accept the gift of Jesus’ death on my behalf and would not deny that. However, I don’t think you see my argument properly if you bring in the idea of giving my life for others. Since I do value human life, especially the lives of those I love, I would be more than willing to give my life to save their life – and yours and your family. However, I think we must draw a huge distinction here between a person giving their own life and a person taking the lives of others. I would give my life to save Rosalie’s life and Seth’s life and others. However, I would find it unacceptable to kill others for the same reason. I’d take a bullet for you but I wouldn’t shoot somebody else for you. I believe that my taking another’s life, even for what some would see as noble reasons, would violate the commands of Christ. Again, I’d be humbled if somebody gave their life to save mine, but I’d be appalled if they sinned and took another life to save mine. There are many Biblical principles at play here such as turning the other cheek, loving our enemies, etc. In the same instance and in the same vein, we are not to take another’s life to save our own. Would you kill somebody else to save your skin? Jesus said that those who would save their lives will lose them and that those who lose their lives will save them. I know it sounds contradictory and illogical – but the Bible tells us not to rely too much on the wisdom/logic of the world. Again, following the teachings of Jesus is not supposed to be easy, but through the help of the Holy Spirit, through Gods’ strength and not our own we can accomplish this.

KATHY: But what about peace? Aren't we as believers supposed to be all about peace? Romans 12 comes to mind. "Bless those who persecute you, bless and do not curse them. Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, 'Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord'. To the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing so you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good." Yes, believers are to be ruled by the peace of God. We should not be looking for a fight or thirsty for bloodshed. We should not be given to pursuing carnal retribution. This is because as a believer, our hearts desire should be to share Christ's love with the dying souls he brings to the doorsteps of our lives. People need to see God's love in action. How can we witness if we are abrasive and unforgiving? So I do believe that we should be pursuers of peace, "so far as it depends on you".

This is why we have governments. In the very next verses after Romans 12, there is a section on obeying government authorities. (Ch 13:1-7) Why? Because God sets them up as protection for us. I'd like to specifically quote verses 3-4. "For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer." Clearly, it is revealed here that governments are for the purpose of protecting those who do good from those who do evil. If you choose to be evil, "be afraid", because God does not let sin go unpunished. It is our rulers' responsibility to protect the cause of good. This is why we fight wars, because when evil is rampant, our leaders cannot just stand by and allow it. God has given them the authority to carry out His wrath on the wrongdoer.

RESPONSE: Yes, we are to be under the authority of the government. Unless, what they ask of us goes against God’s will. The Apostles were commanded to stop preaching in the name of Jesus. They replied that they were to obey God’s laws over human laws. We know that not all rulers fit the scripture above. Adolph Hitler was a ruler. I cannot be said that he was a terror to good conduct, but to bad conduct. Yet, there were those in Nazi Germany who used this passage to justify following Hitler and Nazism. It sounds appalling, but there is no argument that can hold to say that if Bush is God’s chosen leader of the USA then Hitler was not God’s chosen leader of Germany. Do you think that it was God’s will for Hitler to rule over Germany? I do not. Not everything that happens is God’s will. As you know, it is God’s will that all will be saved and none lost, but we sadly know that this is not the case.

Were those who resisted the Nazis and hid Jews and others wrong because they disobeyed their ruler? Of course not. Thus we must agree that not all governments protect those who do good. We must agree that the same government that is fighting wars is also protecting those who perform abortions. You would certainly not quote the part about the government’s using their God-given authority when they’re jailing abortion protesters. Certainly the government is not fighting this evil, but promoting it instead. Our government and most others are filled with sinful persons - as well as a few Believers here and there. So we do obey our rulers if they follow Biblical principals and issue Godly laws. When they do not, we are to resist them. Thus is the government calls people to go to war and kill others, Christians must resist this call to go against the laws of God.

KATHY: Like it or not, in a world filled with sin, there will be war. I for one, would much rather dwell in a nation that is willing to fight against evil, rather than be one of the frightened souls under the terror of a homicidal maniac. I especially think of the mothers with young children, having to live in fear for their families' safety and being oppressed by their own government. These people are crying out for rescue. How can we as the strong nation turn our backs to these hurting people?

RESPONSE: Yes, I know that we live in a world filled with sin and wars. God said that there will be wars and rumors of war. God did not say that there “should” be wars, but knowing the sinful nature of humans, God knows that there will be wars. I believe that it is God’s will for Believers not to fight in and support these wars, but to work and pray for peace. As a Believer in the One who created the entire universe, I have to believe that the power of prayer is more powerful than any weapon made by human hands. I think we do need to fight against evil and help those crying out. However, we should fight in the realm of the spiritual and not the corporal. Those crying out for safety can only find true safety in the arms of their Savior – not in a form of government, whether it’s democratic or oppressive in nature. Just think of what would happen if all who claim the name of Christian would have taken the time they spent railing against Saddam and his regime would have been praying fervently for his soul instead. Before he got the name of Paul, the fellow named Saul was a terror to all who believed in Jesus. The Church prayed for Saul and this killer of the Believers became an Apostle. Cannot the same God who appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus also appear to those whom we deem as enemies? If we do not believe that to be true, then we are just wasting our time and playing a game called “Church.” It would be a form of Godliness without any power behind it. If that’s the case, we’d might as well stay home on Sunday and sleep in and not share the Gospel with a lost and dying world. If we put our faith in the modern version of “horses and chariots” and not in God, then we have nothing worth sharing.

KATHY: "You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:6-8

RESPONSE: Whew! That was a lot. As before, I pray that my words will be taken in the spirit of love for you as my sister in Christ.
sethswife said…
I am not going to belabor the issue here, because it would do no good. I do not claim to be an expert at war. All I know is what I hear on the news, and what my dear friends--believers--who have served in this war tell me, and often these two things do not agree. I have to go with what my friends say, especially the ones who I know to be Godly men who love and serve Christ above all.